I RECENTLY HAD THE UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND an evening with Radim Zenkl. Radim came to this country in 1989, and quickly established his reputation as a master mandolinist. Besides bluegrass, jazz and ethnic music, Radim plays his own solo compositions and has perfected the duo style technique, that has to be heard to be believed. By using a fingerpick on his index finger, he is able to play a tremolo melody, while picking out an accompaniment with a thumbpick at the same time. Radim's new CD, "Restless Joy" is due to be released in late spring on Shanachie Records. He is currently touring with Leo Chern, who plays keyboards and bass.
January 30, 1999 MandoZine: Welcome to MandoZine Radim! Radim Zenkl: Thank you. It's good to be here. MZ: I know you've been here in the states for eight or nine years... RZ: It's actually nine and a half. I came here right before the end of communism in Czechoslovakia, but by the time I left I didn't know that change was about to come. I left for political reasons, but also for musical reasons, to be closer to my musical influences. The Bay Area seemed to be the perfect place for that because by that time it was like the 'mandolin Mecca'. David Grisman, Mike Marshall, John Reischman, Tim Ware, Dix Bruce, Bob Alekno, Rudy Cipolla and others were all here. MZ: Did you know any of them before you came to the Bay Area? RZ: Not in person. That was my first trip to any Western country. I knew their work through recordings. MZ: Who was the first mandolin player you were able to meet when you first got here? RZ: It was actually David Grisman. I met him at the Bill Monroe concert at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco. David was in the audience. I introduced myself and he invited me over to his place. We played a few tunes, listened to recordings, and had a wonderful evening. He gave me contacts to a lot of mandolin players. MZ: Isn't your father involved in music? RZ: Yes, my father teaches classical music theory and music teaching skills at the University of Ostrava. MZ: Did you have an up bringing of learning music formally? RZ: I did to a certain degree...as a kid I started on piano and I sang with a choir. I switched to classical guitar at the age of twelve. I liked it but I had a lot more fun playing chords and singing songs rather than sight-reading classical pieces. Later on I wanted to play a different instrument, since a lot of my friends played the guitar. I was looking for something similar to guitar, and the mandolin seemed to be a good choice. MZ: Was mandolin a popular instrument over there at that time? RZ: I think it was similar to the way it is here now. You could certainly go to a music store and buy a mandolin, but you wouldn't see as many people playing it. But that was because I didn't know the bluegrass circles. In the twenties and thirties, there were actually many mandolin orchestras in my country, so in that time mandolin was probably more popular than it is now. But, as far as skill in playing and mastering the instrument, it's much better now. MZ: When you first started on mandolin, you had some background in music on piano and guitar. Did you approach mandolin on its own, or did you approach the way a guitar player would, and transpose to that, with a familiarity with a stringed instrument and chords forms? RZ: I used a little bit of both. The beginning was definitely the guitarist's approach, finding the chords and picking up melodies. Later on I was getting into improvising and attended a week long jazz guitar workshop. There I learned more about scales, modes and arpeggios and applied it directly to the mandolin fretboard. From that point I was on my own and enjoyed the exploring. I am happy I sort of figured it out myself in bits and pieces since a good part of my music life is teaching. It is a lot easier for me to teach this concept because of that experience. MZ: Did you have a chord book or any mandolin material to use? RZ: No, but I knew the chord theory, so I figured them out. I took me some time to find the good positions and voicings. Later on I met a bluegrass player in a local band, who gave me a Xerox copy of Andy Statman's "Bluegrass Mandolin" book. MZ: Did you start with scales and practice traditional exercises, or did you go into a more experimental mode and try to create your own music? RZ: I definitely started by playing chords and strumming. Then I would pick up melodies by ear. Later on when I heard some bluegrass and new acoustic music recordings, I got really interested in transcribing the mandolin solos. The next step was writing my own tunes. MZ: Did you use tablature for the notes, and notation for the timing? RZ: I use tablature as well as standard music notation since there are advantages in both systems. MZ: What kind of recordings were you listening to? Were there a lot of imports coming in? I'm surprised that you knew of Tim Ware, prior to coming to the states. RZ: The first recordings I listened to were Czechoslovakian bands, playing bluegrass. They really liked the American bands and they would copy the entire arrangements of songs, and change the lyrics to Czech language. Later on I heard real American bands. It sounded great. But you could never get any records in the store. So there was a whole underground network of people involved in getting the music. Somebody's relative who had escaped to a western country would buy an LP and smuggle it to Czechoslovakia. If it made it through the border, we would all make copies, mostly reel to reel. My copies were many times the fifth or so generation, but that did not matter. Eventually, thanks to the network, I had any LP I was interested in. All the David Grisman's stuff, Jethro Burns, Seldom Scene, New Grass Revival, etc. (but I never saw the jackets to the albums). Also, I had old copies of the Mandolin World News. MZ: Yes, I have a complete set of them myself, thanks to Dix Bruce. When you first came over, I guess you made an album fairly early on. RZ: I made one in Czechoslovakia, called "Mandolin Parade". It's on a cassette tape and it will come out on CD at some point. In 1992 I released "Galactic Mandolin", on David Grisman's Acoustic Disc label. MZ: That's the one that uses a different tuning for each piece? RZ: Yes. On "Mandolin Parade", I had one piece where each pair of strings was tuned in minor third. I liked the sound, so I thought, "what if I try all the intervals in the scale?" - so that's the concept for "Galactic Mandolin". The first piece is in standard tuning, the second piece has every other string tuned a half step down, so it's E, Eb, A, Ab, D, Db, G, Gb, minor seconds. The next piece is all major seconds. E, D, A, G, D, C, G, F, and so forth to the last piece, the thirteenth one, is in octaves. MZ: So, you probably went through a lot of strings, with all the different string gauges. RZ: Yes, from 0.008 to 0.085. MZ: How many mandolins did you have available for the project? RZ: Actually just one. But I had to change the strings, nut and bridge saddle for each piece. The bridge was compensated for each individual string. MZ: How long did it take you to record the album? RZ: About a year, I wanted to take my time and do it right.. MZ: How was the response to "Galactic Mandolin"? Did it open up the door for more bookings? RZ: Yes, it did, and David Grisman was very supportive and enthusiastic about the project. MZ: You have a mixture of styles throughout the "Czech It Out" recording. Was there any kind of theme, or was it a collection of tunes that you wanted to get out? RZ: Well, there was a slight theme, which is the traditional music of eastern Europe. In fact there are six traditional pieces and one original written in the traditional style. The other pieces are somewhat related. From a technical point of view, a lot of tunes feature the duo style technique. MZ: That's an amazing technique to be able to play tremolo melody and arpeggiated accompaniment at the same time. It sounds like two mandolin players. RZ: Thank you. MZ: I remember seeing you play about a year ago, and you played a classical piece in the style of Sam Bush, David Grisman, Rudy Cipolla, Jacob do Bandolim, Jethro Burns, Bill Monroe, Dave Apollon, Paul Glasse, Niles Hokkanen, Jesse McReynolds and others. RZ: That was variations on a theme by Beethoven, his Sonatina in C major. (David Grisman also used it as an intro to his tune "Bow Wow".) MZ: Are you considering eventually recording that piece in all those different mandolin styles? RZ: Yes, definitely, though I am not sure when. MZ: Let's move forward to your last released CD, "Strings and Wings" on Shanachie Records.. RZ: That's a duet recording with 20 different artists. MZ: Did you choose the artists based on any criteria? RZ: I knew the players and their styles. I envisioned how it would sound, and it worked out great. A lot of them I had not played with before, and in some cases it was the very first take that made it onto the CD. MZ: Everything was improvised? RZ: Oh yes. We would record a few cuts, and then pick the best one. MZ: Don't you have a new recording coming out soon? RZ: Yes. It's titled "Restless Joy", on Shanachie. It has some solos, duets, trio and a quintet. I play there a mandolin, mandola, Irish bouzouki, slide mandolin and nylon string mandolin. There is a lot of fingerpicking and also one piece in the duo style technique. MZ: The mandolin that I have seen you play the most often, does it have a removable fretboard extension on it? RZ: Yes, it goes to the high A, so it extends the fretboard to 29 frets. The reason for removing the fretboard is to allow more space for the pick, so I don't hit the fretboard. MZ: Do you play with it on very often? RZ: No, most of the time it's off, the mandolin is already quite high. I use it on special occasions, for example on "When I Ride Through That Forest" on the "Czech It Out" CD. MZ: When I saw you perform a few weeks ago, I noticed that you have acquired a great collection of mandolins. [At this point, Radim was kind enough to bring out his mandos.] Tell me about your instruments.
RZ: My main mandolin was built by Steve Andersen, who lives in Seattle. It was built in 1990, "A" style with a few modifications. Most of my mandolins have wide necks. Having the classical guitar background it feels more comfortable to me. The nylon string one was made by Christopher Berkov, who is a great flamenco guitar builder. He lives in Martinez, California. That mandolin has only four strings. MZ: When you play the nylon string mando, do you play without a pick? RZ: I do play it with a flatpick. MZ: What about the other instruments? RZ: The next two instruments are mandolas. One has a mandolin scale, the red one, with the "F" holes and four strings. The other mandola comes from Europe, probably from Czechoslovakia. There are some signatures on the front top, one has a date of 1939. It has a very nice vintage sound. I play it mostly with the fingers, just the tips, no nails. Then there is the octave mandolin (or an Irish bouzouki). It has a long scale. I like it very much. I use both picks and my fingers. Sometimes I use a capo. The last instrument is a mandocello. That one was built in Czechoslovakia, probably around the turn of the century. The scale is about two frets longer than the standard Gibson mandocello. I also have an F-5 mandolin built by Krishot in 1987, currently in a repair shop. MZ: What's coming up for the new year? RZ: I am leaving in March for a European tour. MZ: What advice do you have for beginners? RZ: I thinks that it is always a good idea to have a teacher. And have a decent instrument that you are happy with. It doesn't have to be an expensive mandolin. Find out about different mandolin styles but also try to get inspiration from other string instruments. There's a lot we can learn from balalaika, domra, classical guitar, bouzouki, tenor banjo. The thing I would point out the most is a good timing. It's very important to tape yourself. We never sound the way we think we do... MZ: As a teacher, do you recommend a metronome? RZ: I do as a learning device. MZ: Do you stress learning to read notation? RZ: No, I would actually put that completely aside. If you want to be a classical mandolin player, then that's a different thing. But for bluegrass and folk, I think it's a lot more important to play by ear. It's definitely a good idea at some point to learn standard notation after you learn tablature. Tablature is great, you can read the mandolin books, and learn new tunes. And also you can write down your own ideas. Then standard notation opens the door to playing any kind of written music. But I definitely don't think it has much to do with musicality. It is just a tool. Playing by ear, along with tablature, is a good way to start. MZ: Where are you headed musically? RZ: Before I moved to this country in 1989, I wanted to play in a band, something like the David Grisman Quintet, or the Montreux band. But then I thought, those bands already exist, so I was looking for something different. Knowing that there are solo guitar players and solo piano players got me into playing solo mandolin. About the same time I met a great solo mandolin player, Evan Marshall, who plays mostly popular and standard tunes, with very nice arrangements. Evan was a big inspiration to me, even though I chose to write my own solo compositions. After a few years I switched from mandolin to mandola, and later to the Irish bouzouki (in order to get the lower notes). But it's been quite a few years now, and I feel a need for some change. Playing with somebody else is great, I feel that it can bring out a different part of you. I'm really enjoying playing and touring with Leo Chern now. The next CD, after "Restless Joy", will be our duo CD. MZ: I'm looking forward to that and I'm sure it will be well received. Thank you Radim for taking the time for this interview for MandoZine. RZ: You are very welcome.